Friday, October 3, 2008

What do Kimkins and Zero Carb have in Common?

Kimkins' K/E (Kimmer Experiment) is a meat only diet. So is Zero Carb. The difference is that K/E is lean meat only (preferably skinless chicken breast) while the Zero Carb woe (way of eating) advocates fat meat and even added fats (preferably beef and a 80% fat, 20% protein ratio).

Both diets do not allow vegetables, no fruit, no dairy, no carbs. K/E includes eggs, but even that is discouraged on Zero Carb.

But the most scary similarity between these two diets is the self-proclaimed diet gurus that promote them; Kimmer for Kimkins and Charles for Zero Carb. None of them have any nutritional qualifications but freely dispense their "expert advice" on the internet. Just look at the Ask Kimmer on Lowcarbfriends and the Zero Carb thread on Jimmy Moore's forum.

The similarities are striking. For example:

Kimmer says that zero cals is absolutely fine as long as you have body fat. Charles says that Zero Carb is suitable for anyone, even pregnant women.

Kimmer has her own definition of "real ketosis". Charles is talking about "ketoadaption" and claims that Zero Carbers are not in ketosis, despite the 80% fat/20% protein diet.

Both state their opinions as facts. Anybody questioning these facts is ridiculed by the diet guru, and the loyal followers that quickly chime in with their support.

"Studies" are referenced, but only the ones that support their opinion. When other studies are quoted, or when the simplistic interpretation of the referenced studies is questioned, the question is dismissed as not relevant or completely ignored.

There is a lot more, but I suggest you go and see for yourself.

Last, but not least, Jimmy Moore's support of these self-proclaimed diet gurus is very similar. He has now denounced Kimmer, but that was due to being forced by an outcry from the lowcarb community. He is still strongly supporting Charles, and most likely loves the increased blog and forum traffic the present debate is giving him.

Personally, I have a hard time to see that a diet on exclusively ground beef (hamburger) from Walmart has much nutritional similarity to the wild animals that the Mackenzie Eskimos ate 100 years ago (which is the study quoted over and over again by Charles for support of the Zero Carb diet). But this is the subject for another blog post.

The similarities between Kimkins and Zero Carb continue. Jimmy Moore just announced that he will no longer allow the Zero Carb people on his forum and Charles will open his own forum. I wonder if there will be a "lifetime" membership offered for a nominal fee.


Jimmy Moore said...

THANKS mariasol. I appreciate your comments, but I wanted to clarify something for you. I do NOT support zero-carb and never have. In fact, I am currently working on a blog post which will include experts sharing their comments about how healthy a zero-carb diet is. My recent post about zero-carb and pregnancy was merely to get people to think. I showed no support for zero-carb in that column. Give me a few days and you'll see what I mean.

mariasol said...

Jimmy - Sorry, I wasn't clear. I did not suggest that you supported Zero Carb, but referred to your support of Charles dominating your forum. I look forward to your blog post.

Vickie said...

Great post Mariasol! I agree that the tone of the zero carb thread at Jimmy's forum is very similar to the "ask kimmer" thread at LowCarbFriends.

Extreme dieting in all of its form is very disturbing to me. Thanks for a great post on this subject!

mariasol said...

Oh Vickie, I saw your excellent comments on that thread and how you were met with "doesn't know what she is talking about", "hasn't done the research", etc. Seems that some members on that forum have more support than others.

Jimmy Moore said...

All of that is about to change soon. Stay tuned!

Vickie said...

Well Mariasol..I've never been a roadie for the Grateful Dead so I really don't have the "credentails" to back up my opinions...but my husband plays bass in a band so I should have more of a voice...right? :)

Ogg a.k.a. Yust Yucky said...

Mariasol -- brilliant blogging as always!

Jimmy -- bullshit. You have worked hard spreading Charles's gospel all over the internet, to every article site that will accept your stuff.

THAT is SUPPORT, no matter how you try to spin in.

You have given Charles free reign and what USED to be YOUR forums. THAT is support.

You have allowed him to belittle, insult, and outright lie to the people at that board, who have tried to make a case for the facts. THAT is support.

You are playing the same pathetic game with Charles that you played with Kimmer -- just as you used Kimmer to promote your own agenda by allowing her to use YOU, you are using Charles in the exact same way and allowing him to use you. THAT is support.

Time and time again, I have criticized you, and then felt guilty about it. No more.

By allowing, fostering, and promoting Charles's unqualfied advice to expectant Moms, you are willingly, knowingly, repeatedly and deliberately taking RISKS with the health and maybe even the lives of babies.

THAT, Jimmy, is support -- the support of Evil.

2big said...

WOW Never thought about the zerocarb Charles as being kimmer like. that is scary.

OhYeahBabe said...

Thanks for this post, Mariasols. I don't think the stunt 'artical' writing and egging on of commenters over there just to incite conflict and drama is responsible journalism at all - more like 'gernalizm'.

Prudentia said...

Jimmy, just curious. If you don't support the ZeroCarb diet, but in fact denouce it as unsafe, why would you give this new diet a platform, by hosting the forum on your own server? Is this simply a "business" decision for you?

Mimi/Yucky/Ogg said...

Dear fellow antiKKers, I am writing to ask you to please contact Jimmy Moore and insist that he and Charles post and abide by the following disclaimer:

"The zero carb diet has not been proven safe for babies, therefore we cannot and will not endorse it for expectant or nursing Moms. Please consult a licensed medical professional for all questions regarding prenatal and neonatal nutrition."

Anonymous said...

It's beyond irresponsible to make claims about safety when it comes to the health of mothers and babies.

mariasol said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Isn't Jimmy the one who set up the Woman's World article in the first place? I read that somewhere (quoted by Kimmer), but can't remember where to provide a link. By his own admission, he made in the neighborhood of $15k off of his Kimkins affiliate commissions. How can he sleep at night?

mariasol said...

Interesting that I'm not the only one to remember that Jimmy was the one that got the WW deal underway. I have never been able to find the source, but it's comforting to see that someone else remember it as well.
Knowing Jimmy, he would have boasted about it on his blog and carbwire, so perhaps that's where it was and has since been deleted.

skeopple said...

It is stupid to base your comments on "I read that somewhere (quoted by Kimmer)". Do you quote Kimmer often?

mariasol said...

skeopple - I can't speak for anonymous as I do not know who it is, but I read the comment as if he/she had seen Kimmer stating that Jimmy had been helpful to arrange the WW deal.
But yes, I can agree that we have no idea if anything Kimmer says is a lie or not. I just don't see that she would see it benefit her to give credit to Jimmy if it were not true.

Anonymous said...

You people just crack me up! You have absolutely no evidence that zero carb is harmful in any way yet you are like crack heads freaking at the idea of someone telling you your drug (carbs) is unhealth.

And Jimmy, shame on you for throwing charles under the bus. You're just another self serving hypocrite.

OhYeahBabe said...

While I'd like to respect your opinion and hear you out, Anonymous, you really act like you're not paying attention to the discussion at all. Please reread the blog post & comments because you seem to have skimmed it. Then articulate your points more clearly. Except the one about Jimmy - I got that one! :^D