Camp Carbaway Closing

The former Kimkins Admin Tippy Toes created Camp Carbaway in December last year when she left Kimkins. It was supposed to be a "safe" place for Kimkins "refugees". I never figured out what it would be "safe" from, more than that Tippy herself needed a place where she would be accepted as the majority of the lowcarb community shunned her at that point.

From all indications, Tippy intended to make this into a business, registering an LLC and charging a $19.95 membership fee after the initial, free registration. That didn't work out. Who would pay to join her board when there are so many free boards available? I think she had greatly overestimated her popularity.

She turned the board over to Brian and Heather, the couple she had brought with her from Kimkins that helped her set it up. Tippy stayed on as an admin.

The board did not grow. It remained a small place with some 100 members with probably not more than half of them active. It was mainly calm for a long time, with just a few bannings here and there.

Personally, I had guessed a year for the board's existence. It is very hard to keep a board alive with so few members. People drop out due to other priorities in life, and when fewer and fewer people participate, it generally just fizzles out due to lack of interest.

That didn't happen. The Camp went out with a bang. And what was the cause? The rumor blames Tippy.

It seems that Tippy has learned nothing from her previous experiences. She brings drama wherever she goes. She is an expert at turning people against each other by working behind the scenes.

The rumor further says that first Tippy was stripped of her Admin powers but when not even that helped, they are shutting down the board and starting over without Tippy.

Now, the only refugee is really Tippy. Where is she going to show up next? Will she be welcome? Trying to join some board anonymously will not work. Her writing style is much too distinct, as is her method of operation.

Tippy Toes about Kimkins

The previous PR director of Kimkins left the company in December 2007 and started her own diet forum, Camp Carbaway. While the forum initially may have been intended as a business, it is now just another free private bulletin board that only requires invitation.

Tippy has not officially denounced the Kimkins Diet as being unsound. When she first left Kimkins, she supposedly still believed in the diet, with the only change that it should be at least 800 calories (which is still a starvation level but just misses the label VLCD, Very Low Calorie Diet).

Her forum caters primarily to ex-kimkins dieters and Tippy has not made any effort to strongly discourage the Kimkins diet. The closest she came was the other day when she responded to a hard core KK promoter in the Camp, but it's still not saying NOT to do Kimkins.

"Hi XXXX. I can understand your questions, believe me. I too was a KK supporter--so much so I am a former PR Director for the website. There was a time I thought KK was the magic bullet as I could no longer lose weight and was not yet to the half way point on my journey. Now I see other options that could have helped and I am trying to present them all here for KKers. Always more than one road to a destination.

I too showed the original KK plan to my own Doctor. She didn't blink an eye but did write me a list of supplements to buy as I continued KK. The supplements were from vitaminshopp.com and were their brand vitamin C, 1000mg 3x a day, one flax, one country life brand vitamin and 2 country life brand minerals. I believe strongly in these supplements and continue to take them to this day even though I will not use KK diets ever again. I also ate red meats--just leaner cuts.

While at KK as PR I did hear stories... And I really thought they were just stories. I heard of hair loss. What I didn't realize was that it was not just normal hair shedding...

(Tippy shares some details about members that I hope she had their permission to do. I will not repeat them here.)

And there is Christin, the first PR Director who made the cover of Women's World Mag with her amazing 100lb loss in 5 months. You bet she starved it off. I followed her old posts around KK and I was mad at her for teaching others to starve, drinking water to make the hunger go away, ect. I know NOW she was following the directions provided by her boss--Kimmer. Christin is hanging in there but she has been hospitalized for heart palpatations, lost more hair than many, her menstral cycles were messed up and here is the really bad part which has carried over with her--she cannot consume over 1200 calories a day without regaining. And this has been under medical supervision, with help from a Nutritionist even. Her weight management is a daily struggle and she is unsure how her health will hold up later. She has two small children to raise and I know she is scared to death of what time may bring. We are all hoping for the best for her, of course.

Now, about the plan... Yes it does lack nutrients we need and yes supplements can help with that. But I am not convinced they can provide all of the missing pieces. And my experience with KK was hitting a lot of miserable stalls. I would cycle to Atkins and just maintain for a while rather than continue on. It was too hard to not see results. However, I saw advice given to others at KK to keep going--try cutting this and that out (usually fats somewhere)... Now, if we start on the highest 800 calorie side (which I added to the plan when I was PR, BTW--calories were 500 a day prior to my arrival) and we begin to subtract as we progress and slow down we are simply going back to the old ways of KK--and most do. Maybe not you and I hope not. That is what is called the dangerous "plan behind the plan". There is a blogger, 2big4mysize (link added by me) who has written of the nutrients lacking. Her blog is worth reading and I have posted some of her info here.

Back in the day over at LCF Kimmer came on the scene with Kimkins. She claimed to be 118lbs and said she had maintained her 198lb weight loss for 5 years. She gave people her plan to try, which I know now was her "experiment". As folks would stall she would tell them to cut back lower and lower and she did promote daily laxitive use to "keep things going". She also advocated fasting for very long periods of time including her infamous diet coke fast which she claimed "If I had to do it all again I would lose all the weight doing a diet coke fast...". Clearly she was fishing for her next guinie pig to try it. I hope no one did! And some were using her plan under her direction and were under 500 calories a day in many cases. The head admin, Cheri, from LCF stepped in and told Kimmer that was not enough calories and to please direct them to eat more and she said no--the calories were fine.

Then the private investigator stuff came out and it was discovered that Kimmer was not 118lbs at all. In fact, in a recent depo given by her son, he says Kimmer has never lost weight--ever. You can find the PI pics of her at LCF and in many anti KK blogs.

My conculsion here is that this is a plan written by a liar and a scammer who didn't really care about anyone's health at all. She wanted to see her plan as a success is all--at any expense to others. Keep in mind after all, she was not following KK herself as she was telling everyone. For her it was all about conditioning desperate overweight women who would eventually pay her for her bad advice.

Now, here is some facts I have gathered. If a person does Atkins, the basic guidelines for induction are 60%fats, 30% protein and 10% carbs. The ongoing weight loss phase is a 50/30/20 %. Maintenance is 40/30/30. Run your figures in fitday and see where you really are to these figures. If you are doing the updated KK plan, you may not be so far off. And I am curious. So if you will post your % I will be interested in seeing them.

How many calories are you getting in a day? What % of fats, carbs and proteins do you average? These are figures your Doctor needs to see. Yes the diet looks pretty good on paper until you dig in deeper.

All that said, you may still stay here and continue to use your KK plan. We don't want you to feel you are the only one here following KK--many still do. My hopes is for everyone to stay safe. And I am not trying to lecture anyone as I have been there and done that too. I hope to find a balance that is healthier for everyone that works as well. Some say Atkins is too high in fats but looking at the % given to me by Atkins Center, not really after induction. If lowering most fats produces rapid weight loss at first, moderate and slow weight loss later, than what would happen if we just reduced fats by a little instead of so much? The menus would be much more enjoyable, we would learn a way to eat that we can keep forever and perhaps keep our health. I am working on this and doing an experiement with Atkins myself. See my journal if you get a chance."

Tippy, I am still waiting for you to officially declare the Kimkins Diet being nutritionally bankrupt and that you don't encourage anyone to follow it. And, that you are sorry you ever did.

Kimkins Starvation Diet

Remember Jimmy Moore's phone interview with Kimmer last summer? The part where she said "The purpose of Kimkins is for very quick weight loss. You can take a fiber hit for a few months to get to goal."

She was talking about a fiber "hit" but forgot to say anything about all the other "hits" that strike Kimkins dieters; hair loss, trashed thyroid, heart palpitations with possible permanent heart damage, muscle loss and bone loss.

Is it worth it? Is fast weight loss worth risking your health for? When there are safe alternatives? Like Atkins? No starvation necessary.

[Tippy Toes said this in a comment recently: "I have done many things to lose weight before. I was actually mad when they pulled Phen Fen from the market as I was almost at goal. Yes, I knew it was killing people but I also knew I would gladly pay the price to be thin at all costs."
I have to believe it was just a badly chosen expression, but it shows the desperation that drives people to try Kimkins.]

And when you have lost weight on Kimkins, what do you do then? To maintain? Or lose a few more pounds if you didn't make it all the way to goal? Continue to starve or see the scale go back up?

What's the point in losing weight if it's not going to stay off? And if your health is going to suffer in the process?

We seem to have a whole new diet community with ex-kimkins dieters that are trying to repair their metabolism. They are finding it very hard to maintain and even harder to lose.

Christin, the WW cover girl, has admitted struggling. Deni, also featured in WW, regained 20 pounds while eating 1200 cals per day. Tippy Toes doesn't really know what she is doing and is getting help from an Atkins expert, 2big4mysize. AmyB will be starting Atkins as well.

Is there any true Kimkins success story? I have yet to see one.

"The biggest misconception is that doing something in the short term will have long-term results"
[Elaine Magee, the "Recipe Doctor" for the WebMD Weight Loss Clinic]

Tippy Toes Admits Acting as a Kimmer Sockpuppet

Tippy has still not publicly denounced the Kimkins Diet, and has not apologized for her role as a PR person and admin at Kimkins. Perhaps she is still of the same opinion she voiced when she tried to sign up at Amy's Eating Low forum that Medusa reported on:

"I suppose I am expected to make some sort of apology but really I am not sure what I am supposed to say."

In a statement by Tippy made on Mayberryfan's blog the other day she says:

"I feel extremely guilty for what I said to Christin and Deni on TV. Not that it makes it right but I was scripted by Heidi as to what to say to them."

Is this an apology? Blaming Kimmer? Didn't you say this on National TV? Even worse, if you didn't agree with it, you lied. Was the money worth it?

And then Tippy goes on to say that she didn't believe anything that Christin, Deni and Becky said until AmyB complained about the same problems:

"I do think back about Kimkins members complaining of being so cold all the time and I wonder now if their thyroids were screaming out to stop. But at the time I was cold losing weight too and thought it was just the way it was. I didn't believe what was being said about hair loss as I have mine BUT when AmyB started complaining I began to question her privatly. It was Amy who made me see the truth. And the truth is there are some serious side effects to Kimkins. I thought it was from doing the plan behind the plan, and that may well be but upon further digging I now see the plan behind the plan was THE plan for a long time as preached by "Kimmer". I apologize to those whom I didn't believe. Kimmer assured me it wasn't true, the Ducks were making these things up, and well, since I didn't suffer hair loss, I believed her--until I heard it from AmyB."

We did see the rant on LCF about the "Ducks" all being created by Catherine, the former business partner. What I can not understand is why it was easier to believe Kimmer, at the time a confirmed liar, than the former admins, Cutie, Kiki and all the people on LCF that you have known for years. Were we all liars, being orchestrated by Catherine? Was it the money that made Kimmer more believable than the rest of us?

With regards to Kimmer's sockpuppets on Kimkins, Tippy says:

"She asked me to take over for "Danielle" in the Bootcamp forum as "Danielle" was away. She later causually mentioned she was Danielle, as if I had know it all along."

Kimmer probably thought it was so obvious that "Danielle" was a sockpuppet so she couldn't believe you didn't know. The rest of us don't have much problem identifying sockpuppets over there. So what happened when you found out? Did you leave Kimkins? Demand that she stop using sockpuppets?

In an additional comment, Tippy says that the Ducks are "making fun of, bashing and exploiting posts of Campers". Where are these posts? I haven't seen them. (Well, with the exception of the huggiessssssss Fawn).

If Tippy refers to the post I made about maintenance, I actually thought she would be flattered to be mentioned together with Christin and Deni. I was mistaken. Tippy did not want to blame Kimkins for her problems to find a maintenance plan.

I especially love how Tippy talks about the Ducks. Still referring to us as if another species, she is now saying:

"I am starting to understand Ducks are not bad people."

Starting to understand? Bad people? So the hundreds of people posting on LCF with the combined goal of removing kimkins.com from the internet and bring Heidi to justice were considered bad people?

And as a reason for not speaking out Tippy claims:

"I have been silenced due to a bann from LCF. And I got banned from Eating Low too, as you may recall. I tried the blog but I was bombed with so much meanness and I found myself reacting very unkindly as a result. I can't allow myself to become that so I pulled the blog down and decided to just stay within Camp."

While I agree that the blog attempt didn't work out well, I would suggest you try it again. I, for one, really want to hear what you have to say. Not having access to the Camp, I can not see what you are saying there, unless it gets reported to me. Perhaps not accepting comments on your blog would allow you peace to write down what you want to say.

Game of Chicken

The phrase game of Chicken is used as a metaphor for a situation where two parties engage in a showdown where they have nothing to gain, and only pride stops them from backing down.

This seems to be an accurate description of what's going on with the Magic Chicken Diet lately.

The Magic Chicken Diet popped up on our radar in December and was brought to our attention only because the site was made as a clone to Kimkins. There are thousands of diet sites promoting fad diets on the internet and the only reason MCD attracted any interest was due to the similarities with Kimkins. Apart from the cloned site, the "catch terms" on the front page could have been directly taken from the Kimkins site, and perhaps they were. The similarities are carrying over to the FAQ page where issues that Kimkins has come under scrutiny for are addressed. For example "consult you doctor" and "no, we don't promote laxatives".

When MCD was first discussed on LCF, a former Kimkins admin, Becky, came out to defend the Chicken Lady. She seemed to have intimate knowledge of the Magic Chicken Diet and it's founder as she said:

"They can like it or not, but she was not a fraud, she was successful and real, and was well within her rights to start a business selling her diet. Contrary to their misinformed opinion, anyone can sell a diet, without a doctor or nutritionist affiliated, as long as it is within minimal safe legal standards, which hers was (and Kimkins isn't). She stated up front what the diet was better than Kimmer did (low carb, low cal, low fat), offered more support and more caution than Kimmer did, and kept calories higher, up within the range of MANY commercial diets that operate freely and unimpeded. The site cost her money she may or may not have recouped, and it certainly deprived her overnight of a stream of revenue she no doubt counted on. She has lost her business (and hopes of funding reconstructive surgery, apparently) right before what should have been her busiest season."

Fraud? I'm not aware of anyone that has questioned that Bonnie lost her weight, and we don't have a problem with it. We just don't like the diet, and should be allowed to say so.

Minimal safe legal standards? Kept calories higher? Just because you state that the diet provides 800 - 1200 calories doesn't make it so. Look at the sample menus. There is no way to get 800 calories following the suggested menu. And the calorie limit isn't stated on the front page or the FAQ, just on the menu page that's available to members only (and to yucky's friend's cousin, apparently - but that menu wasn't posted until several days after Becky's post).

She stated up front what the diet was better than Kimmer did? Yes, it did say low carb, low fat, low cal on the front page (it no longer does, by the way) but why is that different than Kimmers low carb, low cal that is clearly stated on the non-member section of Kimkins?

Offered more support? How would we know, before paying $69.95 to find out? It still says "introduction price for the first 200 members". There surely isn't much member support if there are not even 200 members on the site.

Deprived her overnight of a stream of revenue? With not yet 200 members? When the price went up from $19.95 to $69.95 just days before we blogged about the MCD so that any existing members must have paid the lower price? When there is absolutely no marketing of this site, unless Bonnie sells it on her candle route?

Her busiest season? For candles or the diet site? Again, there was NO marketing I could find of the MCD website.

??????????????????????

Then we have the recent events on the Magic Chicken Diet dot Net site. Something is terribly wrong there, but for what reason, I have no idea. Diversion? From what, and why?

The appearance of the recent troll on LCF coinciding with the MCD dot Net rant? And, the troll's blog? With comments from the troll originating from Fresno, CA that provides Heidi's internet service?

??????????????????????

Would Tippy Toes be involved in the MCD dot Com site? For some reason, the self-proclaimed son-in-law, Hulon, found it necessary to comment on Jimmy Moore's interview with Tippy where the MCD was just mentioned. There wasn't even anything bad said about it.

Tippy was at the time looking for a new "home", being shunned by the lowcarb community as a whole. Perhaps she found it at MCD. Surely, the Chicken Lady could use some more success stories and to get a poster girl that has been on National TV, promoting another starvation diet, would be quite a scoop for Bonnie. And, I'm sure Tippy wouldn't mind another paying job.

Flippy Tippy Changes Diets - Again

While still giving credit to Kimkins for her weight loss, Tippy is presently following Eat Fat Get Thin (EFGT). Tippy has tried this plan before in her weight loss journey but quickly gave up on it that time. Other plans Tippy has tried include Atkins, fat fast, a rotation diet, South Beach, CTF (cut the fat), cycling and possibly a few more. She also had a Magic Chicken soup. Could this be part of the Magic Chicken Diet?

The only constant about Tippy seems that she is constantly changing diets. Now, being at or close to goal, you would think she would have developed a WOE (way of eating) that is sustainable long term instead of jumping on one diet after another. What type of message is this giving to the girls that are following her advice on Tippy's new board? Is she recommending that they switch diets on a weekly basis also?

Supposedly, the switch from the Kimkins-like CTF (Cut the Fat) diet Tippy has been following came after a guest post by Barry Groves (the author of Eat Fat Get Thin) and a subsequent lecturing by Jimmy Moore. Jimmy, and some other posters at the Camp, pointed out the need for fat in a low diet and suggested that CTF should not be promoted. Tippy apparently took the advice to heart and quickly declared that she is now following EFGT and that the CTF diet has been moved to a subsection under "Stillmans."

Why pay when there are FREE diet support sites

I have been thinking about how a site that requires a "registration fee" or a "lifetime membership fee" would get people signing up for their "service." Obviously they need to offer something that the FREE sites do not have. As they don't, I have to assume that the only customers they get are people that do not know about the FREE sites.

Looking at Kimkins, the Magic Chicken Diet, and now lately The Camp Fire, the website recently launched by the latest Kimkins defector, Tippy Toes, I have not found anything there that is not provided by FREE sites such as LCF and ALC.

Kimkins and the Magic Chicken Diet sites seem similar and claim to offer:

Kimkins ($79.95):

• Kimkins Diet
• Food Lists
• Sample Menus
• Recipe Library
• Online Personal Journal

Magic Chicken Diet ($69.95)

• Lifetime Membership
• Magic Chicken Diet Plan
• Support from Bonnie & Members
• Forums Q & A
• Personal Diet Blogger
• Sample Menus / Recipes
• Grocery Shopping List
• Access to Clothes Swap
• No Monthly Fees

The latest of the three, Camp Carbaway or the Camp Fire ($19.95) offers:
"What makes Camp Carbaway special? For one, it is owned and operated by people who are successfully losing or maintaining their weight. We are not one of the free larger low-carb boards which means you get more personal attention. We will not sell you any food products because we know some will cause you to stall out and NOT lose your weight. We do not allow our members to be harassed or belittled in any way, even if they stumble a bit while learning. We support the BEST low-carb plans available such as Atkins, Southbeach, Stillman's and more. You are not asked to stick with only one diet plan though -- you have options! We also have recipes for meal planning."

What of these things are not found on the FREE sites, ALC and LCF? I can not see ONE thing!

The Kimkins diet is outlined in detail on LCF and there are knowledgeable members there that can help you to modify it or transition into a sensible diet that will not risk you health.

The Magic Chicken Diet is found at Kimkins Exhausted, in case someone would be interested in eating chicken strips for breakfast, canned chicken for lunch and some more chicken for dinner.

The guidelines for low carb plans listed by The Camp Fire are all covered extensively on both LCF and ALC, plus there are many challenge groups and advice from people that are using the plans, all provided FREE. And the FREE sites offer FREE lifetime membership and registration as long as you refrain from harassing other members.

Save your money, join one of the FREE sites and enjoy your weight loss journey with FREE advice and FREE support from the many knowledgeable members on these sites.

Tippy denies supporting Kimmer, but still thinks Kimkins is great

In a post on her Camp Site today (copied to LCF) Pocahontas aka Tippy Toes aka Jeannie Baitinger denied that she was still supporting Kimmer, stating that she left Kimkins to avoid being dragged into a law suit. Obviously, Kimmer's fraudulent marketing and unethical business methods with bannings were of no concern to Tippy.

She also goes on to endorse the Kimkins Diet in her post, and that she believes that Kimmer did not write that comment.

Tippy also says "I do believe in freedom of plan choice and I will never bully or harass anyone for their plan of choice." The comment she left on my blog a few weeks ago suggests differently. I do hope, for her sake, that she treats her new Camp members in a less "bullying" fashion.


Medusa has an insightful post with both Kimmers comment and Tippys response:

THE TURN OF THE SCREW...

Tippy still supporting Kimkins

Diets in Review said:

I wanted to share this Kimkins follow-up with what looks like Kimmer herself. Back in October, Diets In Review shared with you the disappointing news that many Kimkins customers feel that the Kimkins program is fraudulent. Their PR manager, Jeannie Baitinger, responded to Diets In Review and we shared that post with you here.

It appears that in early December, Jeannie left Kimkins. This morning we received a response from Kimmer explaining the departure.

Please be advised that Jeannie continues to follow and support the Kimkins Plan today.

She simply left Kimkins in order to help spread the word via her own Kimkins-based website. She has my blessing and full support for her Kimkins CTF Diet.

Jeannie is still a very strong Kimkins supporter, and she remains my right hand here at Kimkins. Kimkins would not be the success it is today without all the hard work and support that Jeannie has given me and continues to give me on a daily basis.

If your life has been benefitted by the Kimkins Diet, you owe a great debt to Jeannie and all her hard work.

I couldn’t have achieved all that I have achieved without the monumental contributions made by Jeannie.

She is a fine testament of the proof that the Kimkins Diet is working miracles for thousand of obese men and woman every day. - Kimmer Jan 1st, 2008 at 6:21 pm

$19.95 Camp Fee

Camp Carbaway announced:

"Our plan is to go "Public" on Jan 1 2008. Starting on that day new members will be asked to pay a registration fee of $19.95."

"There will not be any more approval process in the new system. Anyone can pay the $19.95 and join. This may cause issues, but we are ready to deal with those."

That's cool. Really. It's a free country. You want to charge money for providing a member board and you can find people that are willing to pay, that's perfectly fine.

But what does "public" mean? To me, FREE boards like LCF and ALC are public boards as they are open to read without membership. You have to register to post, but registration is FREE for anybody.

If you have to pay a membership fee to join, and the board is unaccessible to the public, it is a "private" board. Just removing the 3rd degree entrance interrogation doesn't make it "public".

But WHO is going to join and pay the membership fee? There has been no marketing of this website and the poorly designed front page has no information whatsoever what I would receive for my $19.95.

Clearly the Headmistress aka Pocahontas aka Tippy Toes believes that her reputation on the FREE boards will make people come running to join, just so that they can chit chat with Tippy on the board.

Think again.

And Tippy, your blog is not really helping with promoting you as a caring and loving person.

While Tippy needs this board as she is not welcome anywhere else, I can't see that is serves any purpose for other people, except perhaps for the few people that have already joined. The indirect "marketing" has seemingly targeted Tippy's "kimkinettes" and kimkins followers on LCF that want to escape the "haters".

Tippy is reinforcing the "US" versus "THEM" by suggesting that former kimkins members are not welcomed on other boards. In her own words:

"don't make them feel they have leprosy because of their dieting preference"

"I am so sorry we all have to feel the pressure of letting the public in. But here is the deal. If they are really ugly we will remove them from Camp. If they want to pay $20 to come back and be ugly again, we will repeat this process. We don't have to put up with the badgering nor will we. Eventually they will give up and leave us in peace. Or they can go broke trying to get the last jabs in.

I know it feels like a battleground. Here we are, armed and ready and KNOWING the opposing forces are closer... We will win. Please, please don't worry. It won't take long at all. And I appreciate that so many of you are concerned for me. I'll be OK. The way I see it is this: The best present LCF ever gave me was the ban button. Just look at where that has led us all! Right here to Camp where people are actually NICE, CARING and have COMPASSION for one another."

LCF and ALC are big boards, and there are many, many threads supporting all different types of "dieting preferences." That doesn't mean that concerned members would not speak up if they see a newbie eating dangerously low calories. But isn't that what Tippy is trying to do on her board as well? So what's the difference? $19.95 will not buy me anything that the FREE boards do not give me.

Kimorexia has some really good advice on what to look for when choosing a diet forum.

Grilled Cheese.... discusses the Camp.

Kimorexia, Anorexia and Bulimia

One of the earliest blogs to take up the fight against Kimkins was Kimorexia but as other blogs started to appear, Kimorexia became idle. As of today, it is back in business.

WELCOME BACK!

And, staying with the subject of anorexia and bulimia, Medusa has a very important post today:

ANOREXIA NERVOSA & BULIMIA NERVOSA...AND THEIR LINK TO THE DEADLY KIMKINS DIET

Please go and read it and be reminded why people like Heidi Diaz and websites like Kimkins have to be removed from the internet.

You might also want to go back and read one of the earlier posts by the original Kimorexia blogger:

Mama, don't let your babies grow up to be anorexic

Just Saying...........

Nothing. Some blogs are best to ignore, especially when they will not "allow" comments.

Kimmer trying to put out the Camp Fire?

Tippy Toes posted and email exchange between Kimmer and Brian, the webmaster of Tippy's new site. You can read it on Medusa's blog.

Based on the email from Kimmer, it certainly seems that Heidi is angry with Tippy Toes. But with Kimmer being the Lying Liar that Lies, I really don't know what to make of it. To me, it is still not ruled out that Kimmer and Tippy Toes are still working together to re-create the cash cow at some other place.

Kimmer further claims that she had the Magic Chicken Coop shut down. However, is it possible that the Coop was the "alternative" site she mentions and the reason it didn't work out was because we exposed it before the switch had taken place?

I have really no idea, I just know that Heidi's words mean nothing.

While Medusa posted the emails, she did not include Tippy's introductory piece:

"Below is a response followed by an email from Brian about he and Heather being banned from Kimkins. This email says I know of a back up site. Tomorrow I will post an email from Kimmer to me indicating otherwise... Oh Kimmer. Seems you can no longer keep up. And not to worry about copyrite infringements at Campcarbaway. We really want to be unassociated with you and Kimkins diets. Members who are already familiar may use them but we will not publish them or promote them. At one time you asked me to be a partner and I told you no, that you could not even GIVE me Kimkins and I meant that. I am showing your email so all can see we are NOT affiliated with you in any way. And why you banned such nice people is beyond me. And you also banned my friend Deb who made some friends there that she has no way of saying good bye to. You told her you were cancelling my accounts and that is why. Sweet of you. Lady, I have no accounts with you. I am starting to see who controls the ban button and I hope the rest catch on."

For the first time, we see some anger directed towards Kimmer, orchestrated or not, I do not know.

And for Tippy's character, it is very telling that she complains about a friend of hers that was banned and lost access to her friends on kimkins. But Tippy, what about all the people that YOU banned? Didn't they have friends there too? How come this only bothers you when it concerns you personally?

I'm still waiting for a sincere retraction of Kimmer and Kimkins by Tippy. I'm not holding my breath.